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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3181	Posted - 2015.10.03 21:31:27 - [1] - Quote I truly do wish this would work, but I don't believe it will. I have been providing feedback on data and relic sites since Odyssey was released and I have watched the slow downward spiral of there value since then. The changes in industry helped accelerate this as did the changes in scanning making it much easier to scan down sites. The Discovery Scanner is also one of the things has devalued in a more indirect way. The bottom line is everything form data and relic sites are consumer based and if there is no consumer demand for the items the sites will always be of low value. You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3183	Posted - 2015.10.04 03:00:32 - [2] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites? To remove cargo scanning you would have to reduce the number of cans per site, especially in the Ghost sites. If they were to remove cargo scanning for hacking containers then I would push for the total removal of cargo scanning form all PVE activities. Sugar Kyle wrote: The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to. Yes the Metacide project is a very much welcomed project, but it doesn't make the modules in any more of a demand, deadspace and faction are often items much easier to get and produce (if applicable) and it does not reduce the skill requirements of manufacturing some of the items. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3184	Posted - 2015.10.04 11:45:39 - [3] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable. I was thinking about it, but it would like loot from sleepers site, ISK printing. We need to find items that are linked with market. Relics are in good state. Ghost sites are in good state. Data contain items that can be obtained from other sources and are not consumed enough. If we want to stick with "data lore" then maybe skillbooks, or tags? What is the key here: -relics drops BPCs and materials to use them; -ghost drop BPCs and materials to use them; -data drops.... I'm browsing eve-markets but can't find suitable items. Cosmos modules are not enough, they won't have enough interest to fill the ISK gap between data and relic sites. Relic sites are in good shape because ships are constantly being destroyed and new ships are being built and the salvage materials are in constant demand for new rigs. Even the times when a ship is not destroyed and the player simply wants to change what rig they are using they have to get a new rig which means new salvage materials need to be consumed. I don't know if you remember or even played pre-odyssey but T2 rigs used to cost up to 3~4x the cost of the hull you wanted to put them on because of the rarity of them, and they were hardly affordable for most players. Now they are all but disposable. Data sites took a hit when the loot spew mechanic was introduced because the loot volume was increased to keep solo explorers able to continue to profit, this caused a massive influx in data site loot along with a massive increase in the number of players doing data and relic sites because of the extremely low entry level of them, the final nail in the coffin was the industry overhaul which removed racial decryptors. Ghost sites are in good shape because they have items that are sold to a NPC buy order to keep there value up. As far as ISK printing, it is PVE which is there to make ISK for players, it would not be so much about printing new ISK, but making sure the new ISK that comes for the sites is not too harmful to the economy. Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3187	Posted - 2015.10.04 15:50:23 - [4] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers. I agree this would be cool, though I've also heard it as an argument for killing cargo scanning. Keep ships on grid longer, make them do more cans, and they will die more often to other explorers/explorer hunters. Or you know just make failed can hacks explosions do damage. Most explorers I know and most of the ones I help guide always reinforce the understanding that if you are alone in the system you are ok to hack, if you are not alone I recommend finishing up and cloaking until you are alone again. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3193	Posted - 2015.10.05 13:36:07 - [5] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP RedDawn wrote: Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Just like that? They should be sigs from day 1. CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us. Ha! Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight. It was you and CCP Bayesian if I remember correctly who fronted the initial changes to data and relic sites. We appreciate your continued work on these sites and for listening to us for changes and improvements to the sites. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3193	Posted - 2015.10.05 13:41:03 - [6] - Quote What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site. Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3196	Posted - 2015.10.05 22:42:40 - [7] - Quote Resra Tenjin wrote: Anything that stops people from cherrypicking sites and leaving them there is welcome. It makes me fume when i encounter those. Even to the point where i sometimes seem to play the garbage collector behind another explorer exploding the worthless cans for them, since they apparently cant be bothered. I also would love to replace the Cargo Scanner i have in now with a second prop mod Cheers everyone Resra It is a (sometimes indirect) PVP tactic. Using PVP in a broad term meaning anything that forces players to compete with each other rather than the simplest form of ships shooting other ships. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3201	Posted - 2015.10.06 20:26:02 - [8] - Quote CCP RedDawn wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site. Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made. As long as they're fair. An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future. A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change. Fairness is the ultimate key to this kind of thing, it should not exclude newer players but still have an equal chance of damaging or destroying a veteran player. A counter argument to placing an alarm system inside the hacking UI is something like that does give older players an advantage over a newer player in the same site. My thought was something outside the hacking UI that would require interaction to evade or overcome. Whether that be destroying an object or disable through another needed instance of hacking. Or if the player is careful or fast at hacking they may be able to completely ignore and rush the site. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3201	Posted - 2015.10.07 02:18:13 - [9] - Quote Marech Bhayanaka wrote: Xerxes Fehrnah wrote: I do not understand why relic and data sites ever dropped differing levels of loot. One is not easier than the other. They have the exact same risk. I suspect the idea was just to make them have different loot, because variety is interesting. But as soon as you make the loot different, market forces will cause one kind of site to become more valuable than the other. Marech. Again, relic sites maintain better loot value because Rigs are made for salvage materials and Rigs are constantly being destroyed either by ships or by changing rigs. Datacores that come from data sites are required for Invention but are able to be farmed from 2 other sources. Decryptors are completely optional for the invention process and thus have fluctuating demand. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3206	Posted - 2015.10.10 11:35:17 - [10] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers. The danger in the sites largely comes from other players. This is a good thing. Adding some environmental damage is a bad idea, since you just limit what ships the hunters can use. Most explorers usually lose ships on there way to the site or on there way back to sell the loot, as I have previously stated, most explorers who are doing a hacking site find it a bad practice to do any hacking containers if they are not alone in the system. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3208	Posted - 2015.10.12 11:25:30 - [11] - Quote We lost out sticky status :( To our CSM members and the dev team who is in charge of PVE, is there any point where you might look to form a focus group to look at the overall state of exploration? If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3211	Posted - 2015.10.14 11:31:18 - [12] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Can we have signtaures removed from probe scanner and solar system map? So we can actually feel like exploring and finding something. What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery. It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3211	Posted - 2015.10.14 12:25:54 - [13] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery. It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done. That why I'm talking about signatures only. I'm reading Sugar's blog lately, last post "Mastery and..." made me think exploration changes went too far. They did, and some players, myself included, tried to get some of the changes reversed before they hit TQ. Removing sigs from the discovery scanner would bring back immersion and the feeling of discovery. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3241	Posted - 2015.12.06 14:25:28 - [14] - Quote Terminalia Wisperrant wrote: The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick. Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. It is an indirect form of PVP, also if you have to hack all the containers it will only be a matter of time before there is more bitching about crap loot or nothing in a container which they had to spend time hacking. So they will either want fewer cans per site or better loot per can. Both of which will cause the value of the loot to drop even further. So no don't make all cans unscannable, keep them as is, if you want your loot to be worth anything. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 3310	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:22:10 - [15] - Quote One of the best ways to improve the value of data sites would be to make meta modules drop as broken items that need to be invented. This one change would benefit, mining, data site, and t1 manufacturing values. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

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